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What Came First ... The Chicken Or The Egg?

SEO strategy, tips & questions. How to optimize web pages. Search engine algorithms. What affects your rankings. This is where you'll find all discussions related to Search Engine Optimization.

Moderators: angienewton, tknoppe, terrapin719, lisamariemary

Postby James Mann » Fri Jun 27, 2003 6:19 pm

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Re: What Came First ... The Chicken Or The Egg?

Postby flensborg » Sat Jun 28, 2003 2:26 am

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The REAL Competition Report Would Determine The DR

Postby Sharon & Roy » Sat Jun 28, 2003 8:18 am

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Postby James Mann » Tue Jul 01, 2003 4:56 pm

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Postby Sharon & Roy » Tue Jul 01, 2003 5:38 pm

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Re: What Came First ... The Chicken Or The Egg?

Postby Peddler » Thu Jul 03, 2003 4:48 pm

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Re: What Came First ... The Chicken Or The Egg?

Postby Lynn Terry » Thu Jul 03, 2003 9:22 pm

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Answering Questions

Postby MrGrammar » Thu Jul 03, 2003 10:45 pm

I've not read the other answers, and perhaps that is best so that you get my first response to your questions. I haven't answered all of them.

Section One:

• a.) Why is SEO usually an afterthought and not taken into consideration right from the beginning of the Web Design project?

The answer lies with the designers themselves. I've run into several "designers" who bought a package like MS Frontpage and think that they can do it all. In this case, the answer to your question is LACK OF KNOWLEDGE.

I also know of many designers who simply do not do SEO from the beginning because it is MORE PROFITABLE IN THE SHORT-TERM to turn out web sites in quantity without having to worry about SEO.

LAZINESS is a key factor as well. It's not that designers don't know. It takes work to continually learn and do well at SEO. It's just easier to design without worrying about it.

Finally, SOME CLIENTS JUST WON'T SPEND THE MONEY OR THEY WON'T LISTEN. We had one client who had his site designed by us. He wouldn't pay for any SEO. It didn't do much, so he had it redesigned -- twice! -- by other designers; all while hosting on our server (so I was privy to everything going on). In each case, I advised him of things to do from a design standpoint and for SEO. He simply would not listen. He finally left us saying that he needed to just try something different. I talked to him a couple of weeks ago. His traffic has increased because he is now paying someone to do SEO for him. However, his sales have not gotten any better because he will not implement the basic changes needed.

=============
• b.) Should SEO be taken into consideration right from the beginning of the Web Design project and why or why not?

Yes. In our experience, planning is everything when it comes to being successful on the Web. If SEO is not considered from the beginning, the site may be designed in such a way that SEO is much harder or even virtually impossible.

=============
• c.) Why don't Web Designers usually inform their clients of the importance of SEO and include a quote for it in their proposals?

My answer here does not exactly answer your question, but is what we have experienced. It takes time to do SEO. In business, time is money. It's that simple. We inform our clients of SEO's importance and all of our quotes contain a SEO section. However, unless a client is willing to pay for our time, we do not do a great deal of SEO. We make sure that the pages have decent titles, keywords, and meta tags. However, we do not do the keyword research (about which I have a lot to learn) or the extra analyzation and html writing.

The majority of our clients simply do not want to pay for SEO even when we explain the importance and ROI that it brings. Of course, they gripe when their site meets their criteria but does not rank as high or is not as affective as they would like. At that point, we refer them back to the original proposal where we informed them about their need for SEO.

=============
Section Two:

2.) Why did you (or why do you think most people) will design their Web Pages without first learning SEO?

Lack of knowledge. When we first started, there were no classes to take, and we had no idea about SEO. Shortly thereafter, we learned about keywords and meta tags and made sure our sites had them. As we have learned new techniques, we have implemented them. I think that it is a process that most designers go through.

=============
3.) Why do you think that most tutorials and/or classes on Web Design do not include SEO?

Most tutorials are more concerned with the mechanics of design -- the "how-to" or coding languages. SEO encompasses more than just programming. It affects every part of the project from beginning to end. Therefore, although it is part of the mechanics, it goes beyond just coding the page. Therefore, it is not covered.

=============
4.) When did you (or when do you think most people) first learn about SEO?

d.) Right after, (i.e., within a month or two) the indexing process by the search engines, when high rankings aren't found?

e.) Way after, (i.e., 6 months or more) the indexing process by the search engines, when high rankings aren't found?

Sometime between d and e when the designer and/or client realize that their project is not making them any money.

=============
5.) Did you (or think most people) initially think that all there was to SEO was to add a few good keywords to your Meta Tags and then to sprinkle them a little here and a little there in your copy of the page and that would be enough to rank high for all those words you placed in the Meta Tags? If you (or think most people) did, where did you (or most people) learn that from?

For a long time, the answer was yes, we just did meta tags and keywords in the <head>, the body copy, alt tags, etc. But then again, earlier in search engine technology, that was all it took. Then came all the seminars to teach us the "right way" to do it. Since then, mass marketing of these techniques has taken over.

It's much like the news about what has been going on in Israel. Depending on which news channel you watch, either the Palestinians are being persecuted or Israel is defending itself. The public usually takes the viewpoint that is more widely seen.

In the same way, the "importance" of keywords and meta tags has been so hyped on web pages, web tutorials, seminars, and classes that it is considered common knowledge. The same techniques are still taught in seminars now. Consequently, since that is what most of the public sees/hears, that is what is generally believed.

(NOTE: If anyone reading this post is related in some way to the Middle East, my example above was just an example. I am not endorsing either side or any action of either party. -- Can you tell that I have to write contracts for my company? :D )
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Re: Our SEO Article Will Ask The Following Question ...

Postby MrGrammar » Thu Jul 03, 2003 10:52 pm

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Re: What Came First ... The Chicken Or The Egg?

Postby MrGrammar » Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:02 pm

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Postby Lynn Terry » Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:13 pm

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Re: What Came First ... The Chicken Or The Egg?

Postby Lynn Terry » Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:17 pm

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Re: Our SEO Article Will Ask The Following Question ...

Postby MrGrammar » Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:41 am

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Re: Our SEO Article Will Ask The Following Question ...

Postby Sharon & Roy » Fri Jul 04, 2003 6:59 am

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